Well said, David. I will send you one of those little battery-powered handheld fans so your stay in hell will be more pleasant.

Hi liked your thoughts we have alot of similiar ideas look me up
see you around Later Thanks

Heheh… Yes, Ron Paul trailing in polls and Hillary leading definately seems to point to either a god that doesn’t exist, or one that doesn’t care too much about us Nice article!

Great List, I love it.

I’m gonna bookmark this

I’m not sure where the logic comes in. You also don’t have much grasp of religion and to be frank all you’ve done is full the article with candy floss. Where’s the logic of including Hillary Clinton, Ron Paul and pot. Ah oh says evolution and creationism are mutually exclusive? I think you need to do more reseach.

Ron Paul also doesn’t subscribe to the theory evolution. I don’t understand what everybody sees in this guy: he’s a crackpot.

For every question you pose above, there is an answer. God can be proven by man’s logic.

If anyone feels the need for a few extra things to believe today try these out:
1. Squirrels are messengers from god.

2. Infinity is blue.

3. Ice cream make machines work better, so spoon it on in!
———
‘throne made of golden baby carcasses’
lolz

your blog sucks

…that Western Christianity has destroyed the concept of religion and a god for you. I agree in totallity with your arguments here. They are all fairly ridiculous. That is because the corporate christianity practiced (mostly in the US) is ridiculous. I hope one day you can overcome this negative experience and come to a deeper knowledge of yourself and your place in the universe.

Well said sir!

Great job. It pisses me off to see a society that won’t believe that the lochness monster is real but some magic dude created everything….in just a week mind you. Oh and don’t get me started on that fact that folks used to live 700 years and then GOD made an adjustment so that we only live around 100 years. This all came at a time before the Gregorian calendar….anyway…I enjoyed this.

1. earth was made for anything that can sustain life here, so yes it was made for us TOO. it was also made for the dinosaurs.
2. there are infinite paths you take but assuming there was a God who transcended time and space, s/he would already know what path you took. just because the author doesnt comprehend doesn’t mean a greater being can’t.
3. sometimes bad things happen, but they can always lead to a greater good. just because bad things happen to good people doesnt mean there is no God, it just means that this is kind of a free for all world and many times when bad things happen, good things come out of it. just because you cant see the bigger picture and are only thinking of what’s going on now, doesn’t mean there isn’t a larger plan at work here.

why do you think star trek has the prime directive on time travel? whenever they go back in time and save someone they aren’t supposed to, it screws up the future. or like in xmen when cable let wolverine get apocalypse’s plague, sure wolverine got sick but it saved millions.

4. science is an ever changing theory. im christian and understand how we evolve and accept it but you also have to understand that nothing can be proven or disproven. evolution is a theory but you atheists are turning it into your own religion, go watch the south park where cartman wants a wii.

5. meh

6. ron paul is losing because the neocons tookover digg and our country is already under the control of a liberal businessman named bush and the main voting bloc in this country are ignorant STUPID evangelicals who are easy to dupe and do whatever sean hannity tells them. bush tricked them and im not surprised. they are too stupid to vote for ron paul as well.

7. wtf does that have to do with religion? i see the hypocrisy/danger of organized religion as well but there is nothing wrong with personal religion. there are also dangers in having no faith and hypocrites in any group.

8. see #3

9. aospdjapokaopsd

10. true. religion has also been used to ensure patriarchy, which also sucks.

Amen

God’s been meeting me at starbuck’s on sundays for years now. why me? why starbucks? why does he always order tea and never pay? obviously, he’s a mysterious motherfucker.

I forgot to mention that it is clearly untrue that in a perfect world Canada would be part of the US. It is more likely that in this perfect world Canada and the US would both be part of Iceland….

Dude I have to say that you completely show (with little bias) some of the many faults that people see in religion!!! kudos to you and I will be on your site more often now cause YOU KICK ASS!!!

I am not an atheist, but I like to think of myself as a man of logic. Your logic is interesting, and I throughly enjoyed your post. I also am glad to see you are supporting Ron Paul, he doesn’t have a chance, but I wish for the sake of our country he did.

so is this about religion in general or the Christian God?

It’s clear you’re set in your ways and that you will not be dissuaded. But I’ll tell you something, you bring up points about religion that not even religious people can (or should) try to explain. Does God exist? Is there an afterlife? You won’t know until you die. Religion merely gives people an idea for those answers and a hope that there’s more to this life than *this*.

Religion inevitably requires faith. If God proved Himself to you, then it wouldn’t require faith.

You forgot to bring up the whole, “Sometimes it’s more important to understand the moral of the story, than to believe the events literally happened as told.” argument against religions and their holy texts.

Some of the most logical people the world has ever grown love God, friend.

i disagree with #2… i bet that our of the people you know, that you could predict what most of them will do in a certain situation.. That doesn’t mean that you set it in their destiny, just that you know what choice they will make.
with their own free will.

People say I’m crazy doing what I’m doing
Well they give me all kinds of warnings to save me from ruin
When I say that I’m o.k. well they look at me kind of strange
Surely you’re not happy now you no longer play the game
People say I’m lazy dreaming my life away
Well they give me all kinds of advice designed to enlighten me
When I tell them that I’m doing fine watching shadows on the wall
Don’t you miss the big time boy you’re no longer on the ball

I’m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go

Ah, people asking questions lost in confusion
Well I tell them there’s no problem, only solutions
Well they shake their heads and they look at me as if I’ve lost my mind
I tell them there’s no hurry
I’m just sitting here doing time

I’m just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round
I really love to watch them roll
No longer riding on the merry-go-round
I just had to let it go
I just had to let it go
I just had to let it go

Sarcastically delicious! I like how you tied the ‘08 presidential race into the argument.

Im all for your article, but isnt Ron Paul a republican?

that was fucking awesome!

the RP arguments are really lame. Trying to spam us with propaganda under the pretence of a funny 10 to go list.

Go F yourself. I’m happy the nutter has lost.

Nice article - welcome to reality too

Accepting that you really don’t believe in superstitious mumbo jumbo or ‘religion’ is mighty liberating - also makes you make the most of the one life you really have1

You are basing your article on Christianity and Islam. What about what other religions believe in?

Search up Sikhism.

I LIKE IT!

This is one of the web’s most interesting stories on Mon 21st Jan 2008

These are the web’s most talked about URLs on Mon 21st Jan 2008. The current winner is ..

Thin mints are awesome. I’d still go to church if they served those at communion instead of fake bread.

Great post, though. I agree with 99.99% of what you said.

lols all these reaons are shallow and superficial. you dont need cynism to make a point - anyone that does, doesnt know what they’re talking about.

Ron Paul would see those mislead idiots in the church rule our country, even if Pot was legal and the IRS didn’t exist. I’d rather see Jesus president than a new pope.

That’s hilarious. I _was_ agnostic, but now I’m converting to Islam!

what really struck me when you sunk your self to a level that you can say (promising pussy in the after life for accepting their religion)

don’t forget there is two situations that you will be in: in hell or in heaven
its not all about getting to heaven its about getting out of hell.

Well written

Hey, when “scott” sends you one of those fans, pass along his address to me will you?

I wanna mail him a paint-shaker so he can give his head a fuckin shake.

Thanks,
Kevin

Amen, brother!

o_o If I were gay, I’d track you down and marry you. Oh, I’m sorry, we’d have a civil…thingy. <_< *No gay marriage *Cough** Uhm, yeah. I completely agree. The funniest thing about these believers is, they aren’t credible. They can’t back up what they say.

“Oh, it’s true….he exists. Why?….Because the fairies told me so! That’s why it’s true. ” (Exageration), for you drooling morons put there…you know who you are.

This is the best one I’ve heard yet

“Because I’ve heard him speak to me. I’ve heard his voice…” (A priest said this to me once)

And scott, for that very, very negative comment, how about you just saw through your skull, take out that nice, loving piece of brain flesh, and give it to the pound where they’ll find a home for it where it won’t be neglected and abused! You bible-hugging freak. x.x

Fantastic - well written and funny

“Alcohol is the leading cause of drunk driving”

hahahahahahaha well no shit. It’s the ONLY cause.

AMEN!
hehh i belive in god and all but what you said is pretty logical and some what true.
Kudos =)

Man, I’ve been saying this exact thing. I mean I don’t force my beliefs on people. Why do they think it’s cool to force theirs on me?

Hmmm, well, although i can totally sypathise with most of this it mostly comes down to personal expirience. Personally i can’t say i don’t believe. However, there are always things that challenge me. Of course, it’d probably help if i read the bible, right? Well, atleast i know no one else is perfect…

Totally agree bro.

Do people really believe that Christians do not question? For me, its the best model for the problem. As in all things, though, everyone needs to have their own opinion and others should respect it. Discourse and debate should always be allowed, however.

I personally study, read and question everything I can wrap my little brain around. There are times I seriously doubted the existence of a God. I have read extremists on both sides. They’re all crazy, to some extent. I am too.

Now…you’ve got a real point about religions’ focus on death. Christians should reevaluate what Jesus spoke about. How frequently does he talk about life after death as compared to how to live while you’re alive? I’d say for every 1 mention of life after death there are more than 10 suggestions on how to live with justice, compassion and love. You don’t meet many “Christians” who actually are just, compassionate and loving, however.

I am a staunch atheist as well. Very well put and humorous. I can’t stand the sorts of theocrats in which speak of, especially the catholics. Nice article.

I pity you. I am a born again Christian, take quite offense to this article. What you don’t know will definately hurt you eternally. I will pray for you that you may finally see the light.

If you’re going use the point of “something had to have created God for him to exist”, then I ask you: how did all the matter in the universe come to be here?

I’m not saying you’re not entitled to your own beliefs, but I know that whenever I pray, I get an answer.

You rock. Very nice!

Your posts seem like you’re very angry. I’m sorry the way you feel. A lot of your posts seems to deal with things you don’t have a full comprehension to. I know I don’t but from what I read, it just seems like you’re an angry person. I truly am sorry the way you feel about religion. I do hope one day you can come to it with an open mind and see that Jesus and God is real. Accepting IS one of THE hardest things to do for a human being; as they’re very prone to doing things on their own(including people who believe in God and Jesus).It’s a struggle we all live by but I do have two questions to ask, 1. Why do we live? 2. What happens when we die?

Do me a favor David, If you kick the bucket before me and find yourself burning in hell, save me a seat by the window.

The greatest irony of hell is that if it turns out that it’s not real, then the people who are ruining all of our fun trying to save us from it deserve to burn in it.

Using reason to justify your belief of logic is like a religious person using faith to justify their belief. The only people you are speaking too are those that already believe reason over faith for a religious perspective.

Enjoyed reading this. One thing though: Forget Ron Paul. Kucinich has the right ideas.

You’re not maddox.

I love you. In a manly way. Not the manly way described in Leviticus which demands others try and give you the worst headache of the rest of your life. Rather, in the sort of way that I would ask you to father my children were I damned (as most religions see being female) to carrying — rather than implanting — the seeds of future destruction. Which I’m not. But if I were, I’d ask you to do the deed.

get a digg button bro more ppl will visit the site

um, about number 2, free will, that is not a contradiction. Let me ask you a question. Has God ever forced you to do something? Like you have two Popsicles but you are forced to take the cherry? No, that doesn’t happen. God knew you were going to take the cherry, but you still were able to choose it willingly. This equals free will, the ability to choose our path, whether or not God knows it is unimportant.

i think we are all tired of religion telling us what to believe and how to live our lives. But do not associate religion with God or Jesus. Jesus didn’t create a religion, a religion created itself. You did touch on a crucial point in the creation of a designer and honestly, the greatest answer is that with an omnipotent God, as it is believed, because time does not control him, he does not have to be created as he has always existed. If time does not exist, then there is no beginning or end, or even really no middle. “A thousand years human years is a second to God and a thousand years to humans is a second to God” explains this paradox. I’m not trying to convince you, just playing devil’s advocate. thats what keeps the debates going. lol. Bad things happen to good people, because good people don’t need the help. Bad people need the help. Thats why they are cut slack, not cuz they’re bad, but because they need it more. Death is impossible to predict and sure, everything could just be shot to pieces when I lose my last breath, or it could be totally opposite of that. Thats the gamble of human life. Are we inside another world, just as a bee hive is inside ours? Or are we the furthest world that exists in the universe? As human life exists, it will exist to question. We don’t know where we came from, we don’t know where we go. What we do know is that we exists now and tomorrow, we may not wake up. And I would rather live a decent life, follow a Jesus that either was a liar, a lunatic, or Lord, and if its all a lie, then what have I lost (I know its the religion logic box, but it still applies)? Free will is interesting, because as a human I can choose to do whatever I want, and it is already known by God, but that doesn’t mean that I succumb to that idea, that nothing can change. Because, we as humans do not know what is forced upon us. In the end, God sits at point A and point B and the middle in-advertently leads us to point B, but the path is what is different. Point A could be birth and Point B could be death or A = my finger hitting a key and B = the paragraph i’ve created. We have no idea, so in theory, we have free will, we just don’t know how much we have.

” But since the church feels that evolution cannot co-exist with creationism”

Someone is not familiar with the views of the largest Christian church body. The Vatican opened up to evolution a long time ago.

I like the way this is written, except for the political parts. That’s just your opinion.

The first one is the best in my opinion. Simply because we’re here doesn’t mean the conditions were set for us. The conditions occurred and as a result, we followed.

Did God create man or did man create God?

Also, Scott, if Hell is eternal infinite suffering, how can a fan make it better? You can’t lessen infinite. Go read something other than the bible.

I’m pretty sure Budweiser is Republican fuel but I’ll let it slide.

I can’t believe this made it to Digg’s front page! Weak arguments against the existence of God from a Ron Paul fanboy. Don’t get me wrong, I disbelieve in God more than anyone I know, but these arguments could be used as straw men for any run of the mill Christian apologist to show how intellectually shallow atheism is. Read Hume’s Dialogues and leave this article buried…

You know the religious nutbags are gonna be all over this one.

Ron Paul is a nutbag too though. Hillary or Obama will be much better than he could.

Too true, and too sad that some people believe these things. Another post that need news coverage.

ok, so i think as an author you are missing a few things. let me go through the list one by one.

1. “Earth is the perfect environment, it had to have been made for us”

I think you may have attended one too many services without actually reading Genesis, the Bible tells a much less strict interpretation of the universe that most pastors preach. I would also challenge you to read it in several different translations so that you can see what varies or is in question between translations, since reading it in Greek or Hebrew may be more difficult for anyone not in that native tongue.

2. Free Will - Contradicting a Contradiction

In code, a programmer might know what a program does, in fact from time to time, they might even be the direct cause of how the code actually executes, but I would stand to argue that there are an infinite number of paths that are possible, even if random chaos is not. I think God is able to know like a programmer does, what a soul’s choice potential is, but it is up to us, the finite to make a choice to. I have started a debate recently just on this topic, and how someone that is infinite, all knowing, all powerful, and all good, may not have much of a choice to do the wrong thing. Our finite ability might be what separates us from being a god, but it also gives us the potential to experience, to grow and to make decisions when all of the information is not present. I tend to think its hard to choose when you exist without change. God seems to me more like a force or will, than a finite being.

3. Hillary Clinton is leading the polls

There is a Satan too.

4. Evolution

Not all Christians believe that Evolution is separate from Creationism. I actually think that when the Church says this is the case, its like choosing a president base on abortion rights rather than something important like How we plan to interact with the rest of the world, or with each other. There is no need to draw a line in the sand on something so non trivial, and equivocally gray on both sides. Humanity has neither observed the creation of life, nor have we seen the transition of one species from one to the next. I have never met a Christian that denies micro evolution, but the debate is just now starting to uncover clues to how macro evolution can actually be tested as part of the scientific process. I think both sides are too quick to ignore, reject, and disrespect each other. These people need to start acting like mature adults and discuss the real question, how did we get here, not why. Why is not a questions of science, and how is not a question of religion. These two sides need to see that we each have our separate purposes.

5. Intelligent Designs lack of a designer

Asserting fossil records as proof is as brilliant as saying that complex systems demand a designer. I know from experience that computational systems can use evolutionary or genetic algorithms to solve problems, heck most of the time they do it hundreds of times faster than iterating through all possible combinations. Heck just look at start ups. Out of every one thousand start ups, one might try to raise VC or angel money, and only 1 in 10 of those might succeed. Trial and Error is still today the fastest way to learn something new. No amount of planing will replace the dumb luck of success, and I would think that an infinite being with all of the time in the universe would be patient enough to find the most elegant solution, and evolution is pretty damn elegant, now if only we had a complete observable account.

6. Ron Paul is behind in the polls

Satan is again a plausible option. Its so much easier to pull off the book of Revolutions if we could only get that One World Government to just work already. Let’s tag everyone and give them no option to move to a political climate that suits their political opinions. One world, one government, one accepted world view, no wonder the Bible predicted that when this happens people will get really violent really fast. Can’t we all just agree that we need to let politics evolve?

7. Pot is illegal but Alcohol is A-Okay

On that note, lets add nudism, washing of hands, cigarettes, sex before marriage, marriage, driving, flying, swimming, and living. I hear that living is the most fatal of all activities. At some point, politics have to be based on what the majority wants, and until that happens with pot, i do not see it being legal. The reason i think it has yet to be legalized is that most American’s do not like pot. I think at this point its something that most of us have tried, and were like ehh, not worth it. If pot was that good, it would be legal.

8. Bad things happen to good people, great things happen to bad people

Its pretty hard to have free will, if everyone has to behave. Plus, i think that evolution thing needs, hmm, catastrophes to work. If the world was perfect, then there would be no momentum to change.

9. Blind Faith

Blind faith is actually a highly successful trait, how else do you think leaders lead? Leadership is knowing what needs to happen, and then doing it. Faith is a core requirement of creating change, whether that is positive or negative change. Faith is the core component to the scientific process. How do you create a hypothesis without having some faith that something might be true? Rational thought, and faith are intertwined. Think about it, it just might be that one of the challenges in AI is to create a basis for Faith. I highly recommend studying epistemology (the study of knowing truth) to see why skepticism generates no new knowledge, ever.

10. The proof is in dying

this is probably the best rhetorical argument yet, i mean, haven’t you won an ipod or found lasting love yet? so many claim it’s possible, but so many more fail. i am no big believer in heaven being the reason to be a Christian. In fact i think its the biggest bunch of spam that the Church puts out. Its kinda like actually ensuring that you win one of those ipods by signing up to the 17 magazines and the two refinanced mortgage offers. I think the real point of Christianity is not about heaven, but about the rewards on Earth that living a good life can bring you. Christianity teaches a number of principals that make life more enjoyable, like empathy, patience, compassion, community, and respect. I think these qualities are also taught in other religions, and I think that it is the act of faith that makes it possible to open up how one sees the world and is able to cherish opportunity when it is presented. The Bible is about a lot of things, but its only a small portion of the actual text. Most of it, is a set of examples on how someone was able to step back and see the larger community and purpose in their life.

You poor soul. Everyone is invited to the party upstairs, but so many souls choose to perish. I believe in God as Creator, that He has always been, and that evolution is part of His Design.

You do make some great points, however. Along with pot, make heroin legal (and very cheap, so users don’t need to steal my Hi-Def. I sure coulda used heroin during and after knee surgery, and burn victims would love its legal availability. Rid the earth of alcohol and cocaine, both which can surely make people nasty.(and Rush Limbaugh too, tho he’d prolly like the heroin thing)

Biggest point: Read Book 1 of the Hebrew (Old) Testament, on Genesis. That’s a REALLY BIG CLUE (apologies to Ed Sullivan). If we, as humans, couldn’t make it in Eden, we SURE AS HELL ain’t gonna make it here on Earth! What causes this? FREE WILL!

I agree with you scott. David is probably going to hell and is going to be raped by this guy…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU

while you were kinda weird in some of it, I hear you and agree for the most part.

i like to think there is a higher being, but religious people have got to be among the dumbest and blindest beings in the universe.

religion was created by idiots of old for bad reasons, and it happened to stick, because it is natural for humans to question their existance, they take comfort in believing, but why believe such obvious crap

Have to say awesome read, interesting point of view. Now lets see the Religious people prove you right by making all sorts of hate comments, burn in hell comments etc. O joy can’t wait to hear from them and their almost nazi type speech “Do you believe in what I believe…no? then you are going to burn in hell” ha ha ah

I just want to say one thing; I don’t care if my neighbour worships Satan, I mean come on, who’d throw better parties, lets face it. Anywayz, the one thing I want to say is that, my neighbour regardless of faith, can do what he wants. I’m agnostic, so I really don’t have a preference, believe as you please. What bothers me is that its NOT ok for my neighbour to have a believe that I (as his neighbour, countryman and fellow human being) do not share with him. Why?

Crap..!! Wasted my last two minutes reading this shit and writing this comment…

Pretty good. I think I’m getting to the point in my life where I don’t care to debate it anymore. I’ve never believed in God. Even with all those years in Catholic school. It just didn’t makes sense to me and it still doesn’t. I don’t want to hate people for no reason or deny myself of my very basic instinct, locic.

worst… list… ever

Well, you’re shot. All of your arguments against “religion” (except for the retarded ones like pot and ron paul) are invalid when compared to several belief systems that I have encountered (Mormonism being one of them). Therefore, this should be “Top Ten Reasons to Believe Reason Over (insert denomination here)” and not religion in general.

Very nicely said. Well done.

The idea of pussy in heaven was hilarious.

Write some more.

Thank “god” someone said it. I went to Catholic school for 13 years and when people ask why I am no longer religious, I tell them it is because I went to Catholic school for 13 years. Maybe I was smarter then the average sheep, but something seemed amiss when in history class we would learn about how ancient cultures made up gods to explain things they didn’t understand. Then the bell rings and you go to religion class and ask that teacher about it and get, “well all the others did it that way but ours is the real thing.” Kinda like the girl that says “all the other guys got herpes but I promise you won’t”.

If you have the time you should read two books “Repenting of religion” and “is god to blame” by Greg Boyd, helps clear up some confusion. Scott- thanks for judging which god told us not to do. we need to love our neighbor(no exemption for unbelievers) as our selves which Jesus said was the greatist commandment. I personally don’t understand the debate between creation and evolution. If god cared about HOW he created things he would have dedicated more than one chapter of the bible to it. He said “ok i made the universe now listen to the important stuff….LOVE”. David if you ever need to talk about it email me.

there should be more of us evolutionists on this planet. its the only way the human race will ever survive.

Fuckin ay!! good man!!

I’m not sure if you’re being serious about #6, but there is a reason he is so far behind in the polls. Its because he’s a racist anarchist retard.

A man after my own heart. Thank you sir, I most definitely needed that.

Dude, this is excellent. Your wit is sharp and your logic is irrefutably hilarious. I am bookmarking your site for frequent visits in the not too distant future. Good work

Yessir, nothing like the threat of being burned alive forever to scare sheeple into believing whatever the hell you want. They tend to be much more willing to do whatever you want at that point, like hmm, blowing themselves up for God and country. “Do as I say without questions or Burn for all eternity! Remember, I love you.”

Hey nice try but this is a crap article. Leave the logic to the logical.

Alcohol is the leading cause of alcohol related deaths? Who knew!

Glad there are others out there willing to poke fun at the stupidity of religion. Keep it up.

I’ll see you in hell, we’ll get lunch

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but ask that you consider the plight of those who cannot cope in their lives without the hope that their own chosen religion presumably gives them.
At the end of the day we are easily able to ignore anyone who attempts to direct us into accepting their beliefs (this applies equally to this post of mine).
We should only become concerned when others threaten to force us into believing whatever they believe.
PS There is no Satan or Hell either!

[…] […]

Good read, I like the intersplicing of humor, and solid arguments. Keeps people on their toes!

I totally agree with you, I don’t know how many times I have had a girl scout come to the door and she did not have any thin mints….ALL I WANT ARE SOME GOD DAMNED THIN MINTS!!!

hey…u r grt man..finally i got someone to say exactly what i felt like sayn sll this time..cool stuff bro..like it…hope more ppl sees the light of knowlegde versus blind faith after this..keep it coming

You are awesome. And so right.

i don’t agree with you (as a christian), but you’re freakin’ funny. and ron paul as co-god? that would ROCK.

Actually, logic regularly leads my dog away from the warm stove. You see she knows that by about the third time of asking her she’s getting a flying lesson to the couch away from the stove. Thus the second time she is instructed to leave she slowly turns and walks off.

Logic: 1
Religion: 0

I Gotta hand it to ya. Those are good points. I use the blind faith one myself.

Everything listed here is correct except the one about Ron Paul. If he’s behind in the polls then perhaps there is a small glimpse of hope that a higher deity may exist to spare us from the wrath of a lunatic libertarian.

Oh this was fucking awesome! Subscribed.

I think you’re giving too much credit to creationism in point 4. We, nor anything else in ‘creation’, is perfect. The design of our backbones gives us hernias, we can easily choke because of the design of our throat, our metabolisms are all over the place, we have allergies, our brains are bad at staying concentrated and remembering stuff accurately. The list goes on. We are very far from perfect.

good stuff

Since when do logic and religion contradict each other?

Pro-pot, anti-Hillary, pro-Ron Paul, anti-religion…. Especially on the internet - give people the freedom to become anyone they want to be and they will imitate each other.

Nicely said!
no lighting, right

awesome post. Where can I find a high quality version of that pic of the reaper on #10?

Let me say first that I was raised Christian, then stopped believing in God for a while for many of the same reasons you have above. But then I realized one thing I think you have yet to realize: as smart as you are, IF there is a god he is most likely infinitely smarter and complex than yours or my brain can handle. If he wanted to present a world where there was basically no logical reason to think there was a god, he would. Nowadays I THINK there is a god, based on the sheer improbability of our universe existing in such a way that I came to being just based upon chance. I guess I mean that I think there’s a better chance than not that there is a god; any article on evolution or the universe that mentions the odds of this or that happening always have the odds of what actually happened as ’slim to none’. Using ol’ Occam’s razor, I think it is more likely that there is something guiding our creation that I cannot comprehend than the idea that we just came into being based on the infinitesimally small chance that this is all just a ‘random’ freak occurrence. I would HOPE that this god is a ‘good’ god, and that if I act nice I may get something out of it. But I also act ‘nice’ though because I think I will be happier in the long run based on my genetic makeup and how the world works around me. I would act nice even if I thought there was no god. I do not think that god HAS to be good; he could be a jerk for all I know.

Hope this helps, ‘god’ bless

i agree with you. maybe some will wake up and reject this poison that has been tainting our lives

I quite like a quote from Douglas Adams the writer of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy etc., when he said “I appreciate the glory of the garden without seeking fairies at the bottom of it”:

Oh, wow, thanks, Scott. That was witty and convincing. Now that you’ve scared him with hell, he’s sure to convert any time now.

Top 10 Reasons to Believe Logic Over Religion | Deliggit.com

dailygarlic.com

An atheist\’s point of view.

Nai-eve. Get real. I point you to Arachaea, aka A

All of your words are fact.

You wouldn’t want to go to Heaven anyways. It’s pretty much the definition of a shame. They only sport is curling!!!!

This is your warning

-Dead Jesus

WELL SAID!!! look at this:
http://www.spymac.com/details/?2331213

I agree with you so much David.
These nutjobs are willing to believe in something they cannot prove, all the way until they actually die. If this ‘greater being’ is so great, why the heck won’t it show it’s face.
I have a box, it has nothing in it, but any God is welcome to magic something into it to prove that creationism is right. So far, nothing has appeared in this box.

I have no problem with others believing, but I hate it when religious asshats try and press their own views onto you.

Yes, the Argument of Personal Incredulity is soooo retarded…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Argument_from_personal_incredulity

And Scott, why don’t you do us all a favor and take that little trip to heaven you’ve been planning a little early.

In fact one might argue that free will is possible even when God knows what we will do. He is often given the attribute of transcendence. In other word space and time do not bind Him in the same way the bind us. For example I could go into the future to see what you will do then come back to the present. Knowledge of your decision will not affect your free will. Hence, he can see what we are going to do with out influencing our judgment. Nice article though.

so no intelligent design huh?
and you have no problem with your ancestors of a lump of pond scum?

Wow - your ability to reason is far exceeded by your arrogance in doing so. If I had a few hours, I could have a field day with all the fallacies you’ve fallen for and are asking others to fall for.

If you’re going to claim the “logical” high ground, I suggest you start by understanding logic.

I do have time for few of the low-hanging fruit, however.

1) Yours is the classic argument from ignorance - since the conclusion “God exists” has not been proven true, it must be false. Right? Wrong. (The converse isn’t true, either). Face it: you CANNOT KNOW for a certainty whether God exists or not. Each person gets to choose whether to believe or not.

Deep thinkers might even conclude: “IF God exists and created this earth, he must have ordained it to be that way - that each person has freedom to believe what they choose,” and then ask themselves “Why might God set it up that way?”

2) Your ability to start with a false premise and use proper reasoning to nonetheless reach an invalid conclusion is quite impressive. But just as wrong as if you had started with a true premise and used invalid reasoning, as do the straw man religious arguments you refute.

3) Your ability to construct straw man arguments would be impressive, but it’s so obvious that’s what you’re doing that only someone anxious to believe what you’re saying anyway would be swayed (or should I say “fooled”).

4) You beg the question a lot, too.

5) You’ve created a false dichotomy - you’ve cited a non-exclusive set of possibilities as exclusive.

6) Lots of ad-hominem attacks there, my angry friend. What are you so mad about?

7) The whopper, though, is how you lumped everyone who believes in God into one category (”religion”) and then dismissed them all with straw man arguments as if the entire group of God-believers all believe every single one of the straw man arguments you’ve constructed. That’s called “division,” i.e. stereotyping.

Good luck in reconstructing your world view according to REAL logic and not just what you imagine logic to be…

Dave Whittle
Author of “Cyberspace: The Human Dimension,” which contains (you guessed it) an entire chapter section on logic because I knew how rampant but deceptive poor logic can be…

I’ve been asked to prove the existence of God many times in my life. I can’t. I will however respond to you the same way I do the others: Prove that He doesn’t exist.

I was interested until you started making what you must call jokes about the current political state and how much “better for you” pot is than alchol (psst… it ISNT). An arguement shouldn’t deviate from the original topic and sarcasm doesnt prove a point. I think you went off course because there aren’t 10 reasons to believe logic over religion. You should and have the right to believe in both. The way Religion is practiced is a joke don’t get me wrong but alot of the “non believers” seem to love the smell of their own shit too claiming that they’re almost of a “higher power”. Stop being so smug.

Very insightful and many good points. I’ve always said that if I can’t see it or touch it, then it can’t exist. I’ve always followed logic and science and disregarded religion as a mental disability, like being a delusional psychotic or bipolar or schizophrenic. Religion just doesn’t work. Thank you for a good read.

Logically, you’re just a spec of stardust, so you might as well get it over with and jump off a bridge.

I’m kidding. Someday you’ll stop and wonder “is this all there is?”. Then you might understand what religion is about.

Hey David, it is a lot easier to believe that we were created by God and not just the product of a bunch cosmic dust and gases randomly coming together. It’s obvious you have an open mind so, why not open it to the Lord? It’s human nature to want proof of everything, but it’s foolish to try and understand why God does things the way he does. He does not owe us an explanation. That’s where faith comes in.

True, bad things do happen a lot to good people, but it’s usually because God wants us to learn something and ultimately be closer with Him.

God loves all of us and wants us to be happy. He does provide miracles everyday to those who believe and ask for them. But, understand this: God created us for His pleasure and purpose only. All too often we ask God to do things for us, but we never want to do things for Him or live by His rules. God is not a genie available for our own whimsical desires.

We try to interpret God’s Word in the Bible to fit our lifestyles instead using it as a guide by which to live our lives for Him.

Just remember, it was man’s sin that separated God from us. That’s why it’s up to us to use the free will God gave us to go back to Him. But, we need to make the first move. God is good, and he has given us a way back to Him through Jesus. But, we must ask for it.

There is a book you should get. It’s called, “The Purpose Driven Life - What on Earth Am I Here For?” written by Rick Warren.

God bless you.

Eh, you stole this line from Robin Williams:

“That has got to be the lowest thing.. promising pussy in the after life for accepting their religion.”

Also, ever since atheism went ‘mainstream’ in the media last year or so (with the Hitchens and Dawkins books came out) there’s been a lot of articles like yours on the net.

Basically, this article adopts Hitchens and Dawkins caustic tone, but without any new insight and a few bad jokes thrown in. You’re just repeating what they (and Robin Williams) said.

And it’s not like I disagree w/ the thesis, I’m atheist. But this article is just unoriginal and it reads like a college freshman who thinks he’s blowing the world’s mind when he’s just repeating things he read and presenting them as his own ideas.

Scott,

Did you stop to think that perhaps he (David) doesn’t believe in hell? Just because you believe in it doesn’t make it so. Perhaps you didn’t fully read the article.

I beielve there is a God and I totally agree with you, you are free to believe what you want and I am not going to try to force you to be or think like me. I do not agree with your comment on freewill. Just because my wife knows in advanc that I am going to leave the toliet seat up after I pee doesn’t mean that I didn’t have the free will to leave it up:).

Ah for the wonders of blind faith and ignorant judgments.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If God can “just be” then why can matter “just be”

“The idea . . . is ridiculous, and it’s time someone said it.”

I’m pretty sure that’s what Richard Dawkins said in the first chapter of The Blind Watchmaker 20 years ago.

Well put, I pat you on the back for this article.I’d also like to say fuck scott and bipolar2, they lack the intelligence to understand this like 90% of the rest of the world.

I can totally tell you and I have the same views on almost everything (which as you know is extremely rare). Your logic is the same logic I use. Weed is better than alcohol for numerous reasons. I hate hillary. Ron Paul is the future we’re turning down. Oh…I wanted to add to the blind faith. The only logical answer (assuming we’re believers), is that God is fucking with you. I mean, if you need faith as your ticket into the pearly gates, he’s testing you…TESTING you. If we’re his creation, why would we be testest? He’s fucking with us like we’re tiny ants in an ant farm…letting rape and murders and unthinkable actions continue. It’s absurd to say God heals, God saves, etc. I like your logic…100 yr life span for ETERNITY. Please. 100 years as a mortal is not even a blink of an eye, it’s less than a fraction of a second…and God would decide whether we live with him or burn in hell for ETERNITY based on this life. We should treat others well because we want to be treated well, no need for a crutch. Anyhow, we should toss back and forth some other ideas. Shoot me an email. Thanks for the great read.

As your post will probably generate a ton of negative comments, I’d be happy to agree with you. I’ve often found myself asking many of the same questions. Perhaps somewhere along people just made this shit up to explain everything they didn’t have a clear-cut answer for? Maybe religion is nothing more than some simple guidlines for society to live by.

Remember the game you play in kindergarten where you come up with a phrase and you whisper it the next persons ear. By the time it goes around the room, it barely resembles the original phase? Now multiply that by thousands of years and you have (insert name of your favorite religious text here).

Just my two cents…can I have one of those little fans too?

To quote Herman Melville (author of Moby Dick among other books):”Methinks that in looking at things spiritual, we are too much like oysters observing the sun through the water, and thinking that thick water the thinnest of air.”
we cannot disprove the existence of a higher power because we’re human, and our insight into the world is extremely limited.

Whatever anyone below writes putting you down, they must be religious. Only religion fires hatred if you don’t believe.

give your head a shake scott

72 virgins? What do they know? Give me 72 experienced hot bi chicks any day!
Revelations says you only go to heaven if you are judged worthy according to your entry in the book of life. That happens on judgement day, not when you die. So what happens in between? Is it the longest queue for a nightclub ever? When you get to the front the doorman tells you ok or sorry we don’t serve your kind here - and you go to the place that accepts anyone (which is probably where my friends are anyway).
One last comment - since when did the ability to memorize a book make anyone more right than someone else?

Awesome post! I really enjoyed it!

I am a Christian, but I must admit, on some of your cases I agree with you. However, I do disagree with you on several points. (1) I know there are billions of other planets out there, but only a select few support the ideal conditions for human life. If the Earth were just a little bit closer or farther from the sun, all life was we know it would cease to exist. Other things can live in other conditions, butt at least in our planets, we failed to find any life whatsoever. Earth is a special and unique place, and I believe that God made it this way for a reason. (2) God gave us free will, and even he doesn’t know everything that we’re going to do. In Genesis, I doubt he could have predicted that Adam and Eve would disobey and eat the forbidden fruit. (3) I don’t see how manmade politics have anything to do with religion and God’s existence. (4) I believe that creationism and evolution go hand-in-hand with eachother. God had the idea for people, and he used evolution to shape us to how he wanted us to be. I don’t believe God could just make things appear so he needs lots of time to evolve things to his ideal. (5) This may be overused, but God lives beyond time and space. Time as we know it has no relationship to God. I believe that God was always there, but our concept of “always,” and “forever” are different with God. (6) Again, manmade institutions have nothing to do with God. (7) God doesn’t want drunk driving and unnecessary death. But God doesn’t have the power to directly interfere with people, so he can’t really make that rule. (8) As I said, God cannot directly interfere with people because he gave us free will. When he first created man, he made laws which he himself couldn’t disobey- some of which were not interfering with people. He wanted man to be his children, NOT his robots. (9) I agree. People who follow faith blindly are idiots. (10) If you live a good live by serving others, you will be rewarded for that. Again, time in spiritual world is different than time on earth so your logic is flawed. Anyway, it is an interesting article that made me think.

Ron Paul is a leading theocrat who has called the separation of church and state “a myth”, who has inserted a clause into his perennially reintroduced “Sanctity of Life Act” that would bar citizens from petitioning the Supreme Court when the Executive Branch violates the First Amendment of the US Constitution, who supports favored tax status for Churches over other religious institutions, and who, contrary to rhetoric, does not oppose government funding of social programs - only social programs that are based on post-Inquisition science. For example, while voting against federal funding for birth control education, he voted in favor of federal funding for abstinence education - in the same year.

Do yourself a favor before you sound off so smugly - educate yourself about the things you sound off about.

I am an atheist because I’ve done my homework, not because it happens to be hip at the moment. When you tout the value of charlatans, you undermine your entire message.

omg this has got to be the best blogi have ever read
so so true im wih you 1010 percent on this

Beautiful. No anger from me, just respect.
Regardless of what anyone believes, it important they understand that unless whatever power did whatever to whomever, that nobody really knows what the f*ck is going on anyway.
Nicely done.

although normally i look for a more formal, serious register in the things i read on this subject, the humor and casual register were a welcomed break from that kind of reading.

very well written.

additionally, bipolar2’s quote basically says “I’m more comfortable thinking that I have a big guy in the sky watching my back and keeping me from having to accept responsibility for my actions, so i will choose not to accept the proven, and obvious truth” and Scott is just as asshole. i don’t understand why these guys can’t just be civil and present some reasons why they’re right instead of wildly throwing threats at us for trying to discover the truth…

Man created God in his own image.(Religion)
God created man in His own image. (Relationship)

If logic (you) can explain/refute God, then YOU must be God.

Hey, David I agree on almost every point. Have you ever tried explaining point 2 to a Christian? There’s an uncomfortable silence for a while and then you never talk again.

Please do point out the exact portion of text in the Quran that promises anything about any virgins in the afterlife… that was the weakest point of your entire arguement. You just base your shit off the bullshit everyone wants you to believe in. There is no such thin in Islam.

Ahh… logic, that amazing thing that every religious leader in history and present fears most. Nothing provides more conversions than logic. Whether it be logically deducing that God cannot exist, or deciding that he probably doesn’t due to a certain event (eg. your dog dying after being hit by a car, despite your fervent prayers to the contrary).

yo im a big believer in my Lord Jesus, but im a very open minded person and i have mad respect for everything that you got on here. i completely agree with you that people shouldnt just believe whatever theyre told without doing their homework, basically. you obviously did your homework and the way you choose to live works for you. as a spiritual person or Godly person or religious person, i think thats all that God or whatever the Higher being is wants me to want.. people to be happy. good shit bro.

Your right that everyone should have their own point of view and freedom to believe in whatever they choose, that’s the beauty of free will.

But as a Christian, you can’t fault us for trying. If you saw your friend on the train tracks in front of a speeding locomotive wouldn’t you shout for them to get out of the way. That’s all we’re doing. We’re shouting because we care, because we want to share a joy that cannot be explained or rationalized. We can’t help it if you choose not to believe in trains.

Personally I can’t dispute your logic in where God comes from, I’ll ask when I get the chance. I do believe He exists and is the Mover. The law of inertia tells us that an object in motion tends to stay in motion and that an object at rest will stay at rest unless influenced. The Big Band may have happened, but it didn’t go boom without a little help.

My short message isn’t going to change your mind. But hopefully it will give someone pause to reconsider what is possible. For all things are possible through Jesus.

Besides, where is the downside. Say you live the Christian lifestyle; you believe and accepted Jesus, you follow the ten commandments and do your best not to sin.
If we are right you die and go to heaven and live for eternity in peace (it scares me when I say it because it seems unlikely to me too, but you gotta have faith).
If we are wrong, then we die and there is nothing…infinite black (this scares me more).
On the down side, and you don’t believe in Jesus or God when you die, you spend eternity in hell. The bible says that hell is worst than mankind can even imagine. Can you believe that? We’ve imagined some pretty horrific things in our time. Even if you simply imagine burning alive for eternity, as horrible as that sounds, it doesn’t come close.

Like I said, your free to believe in what you want. But if I’m wrong I’ve lost nothing and led a good life. If your wrong… well I honestly hope your not wrong.

-Ryyson

Hmmm . . .
@ scott: blablabla, where in the frkn bible does anything stand about hell??? talking big about beeing a christian but not having a frkn clue what its all about. anyhow . . .

@ David: well some points are good, others are bit strange or even not valid. i find it a pitty that you let your article sound like one stupid joke. somehow it destroys your credibility and the credibility of all the arguments you present although some arguments are good and by the way well known. i hope you will consider this writing your next post because a clear mind and good thoughts are too valuable to be presented in such a way that nobody will take them serious.

[…] you believe in God or not, it’s entertaining, insightful, and pretty smart. Check it out here. Finally (at least for now) is an amazingly well written story from “The Independent”. […]

Theres a lot of things there that people would argue about, but i’m not gonna start. I’m just gonna say that a little more research would’ve helped your point.

Good article, very funny, except where you say “I don’t care if you DO believe that Jesus is magic” - you should care, it’s not wrong to want people to think correctly, we need people to be smart or we’ll have a shit world.

I like how a religious argument turns into Ron Paul spam

Ahem… the renditioners are waiting in the black Suburban outside, to whisk you off to GITMO. Please bend over while they insert the butt plug and slap the Depends on - Oh, BTW you will be flying nonstop via Baghdad, for they need to pick up a few more journalists.
Gott Mit Uns, as the NSDAP once said.
Forget the Alamo, remember the Crusades!
Brudders and Breeders, remmeber that Jeeeeee-sus died for our oil!
Go Team, Rah Rah rah!
This message brought to you by Haliburton; we bring good things to our portfolios.
Inshalla!

Isn’t the Ron Paul thing rather incorrect? He doesn’t really support “freedom” anymore than Bush would claim to. Only an anarchist really wants freedom. But the limited good type of freedom you’re refering to, the freedom to do things that don’t hurt people like drugs and prostitution, freedom of religion and so on, does he support all of those? AFAIK he is pro-life, against stem cell research, supports a border fence (very anti-freedom), against net neutrality, against kyoto agreement, against universal healthcare, he’s a christian AND he’s a republican (yet you make fun of republicans). What is so good about Ron Paul? This “let the states decide” mentality is stupid, if it’s right it should be the law, the law should not change from state to state because then it’s not reasoned.

I just had a very religious discussion with my roommate about me being an atheist and how nothing can shake her religious foundation. I honestly believe that the whole 2 hour long discussion could have been avoided if not cut short with a quick e-mail of this link to her. Excellent points very well executed.

lol @ scott.

be sure to send him some condom’s for those virgin’s he’s gonna get in heaven

That was pretty crap. Sorry you wasted your time on that. Of all the relevant, logical reasons that could have caused Christians to sit back and really think, you had to come up with a bunch of pot-induced, wanking, teenage-boy whining. Come on. You can do better than that.

Ron Paul is a republican dumbass so dont insult the republicans, hypocrite.

Ron Paul is a reblican dumbass so if you support the republicans why do you insult them, fukin hypocrite.

www.answersingenesis.org

Logic FTW!

Are any of us really here? where is here? what is here? how can you be sure?

Philosophize. You will be graded on originality and factual and/or truth based answers that cannot be proved through the use of logic, physics, common sense, or reality.

Bonus: Which deity gave to you these answers? Are they real or imagined? Prove or Disprove their existence through any above mentioned methods.

Double bonus points will be awarded for concrete evidence of said deities existence while disapproval of infidel deities.

Wow you could be my brother lol. I agree 100% with everything you said. Atheist Ron Paul supporters unite!

Nice list. I’d love to see some religious nuts come out with some rebuttals that dont involve burning in hell…

Actual quote from a Christian friend:

‘I know the bible is gods word, because the bible says its gods word’.

Religion is based on the lie that we are separate from God, and we need them or we will go to hell. This is an ancient lie, going back thousands of years and we are just now calling religion out for its lunacy. Religion is designed to keep you from questioning why you are here, where you came from, and keep you looking to “heaven” in some future place while enduing suffering now. You are in heaven, and look free will allows you to turn heaven into hell. Whatever you believe is true will be proven to you in this world. Probably be a good idea to pick a theory that empowers you, the exact opposite of what religion does.

I agree with the sentiment, but some of your particulars are problematic:

1. There’s an easier way to put this: no, WE must have been made for the environment. Evolution explains this just fine. If the Earth had a different atmosphere, we would have evolved differently to suit it.

2. There are some nuanced theological views that claim to resolve this paradox. One argument is that God’s plan is malleable; we actually _do_ choose the details of our decision, and God just manipulates major events to keep history on the right track. Silly, yes, but for reasons other than this logical contradiction.

3. and 6. Your politics suck. It was pretty crass to stick political endorsements into an attempt at serious argument. I’m not going to argue the merits of Paul with you, because _that is irrelevant_ to this discussion. Try making an actual argument; there are plenty of reasons why our political and social structures might contradict the existence of a loving God who shapes history, but your personal biases on individual politicians are not helpful.

4. Actually, the Catholic Church accepts evolution. It’s pretty much just an American Protestant thing to believe in Creationism. The Church follows pretty much exactly your reasoning: that evolution happened, but God planned it and/or guided it to lead to humans.

5. This is a good argument. Kudos for using the phrase ‘begging the question’ correctly, which nobody seems to do these days.

7. See 3. and 6. I agree with this, but this is an obviously biased and irrational way to approach the theological significance of modern politics. Try analysing the structure that leads to all these problems. A bunch of examples of bad things isn’t helpful; any theist with a basic grasp on reality has accounted for the fact that there are clearly some things in the world which are bad.

8. This is much better than 3, 6 and 7, but also something pretty much every theist has thought of and come up with an explanation for. You need to go a step further if you want to be responding to any but the most obviously stupid interpretations of religion. What about believers who say God is not currently manipulating human events?

9. The most common argument here is that the redemption process _must_ be belief and not knowledge. This is a pretty repulsive standard for a loving God to adopt; the most common response to THAT is that God is unknowable. There are obvious problems with that belief (e.g., how do we know this God isn’t lying about the whole redemption thing?), but to get there, you have to go beyond the obvious observations and look at the debates that have been raging to find more nuanced positions to respond to. You’re still at the ‘burning down a straw man’ level of the debate.

10. It’s a “low” tactic if you view these claims as false, but theists believe a lot of irrational things. If these irrational things are true, their belief system makes sense. Simply pointing out that these things are unverifiable isn’t going to help; you have to convince them not to believe them. Your ‘logical fallacy’ bit is not a logical fallacy at all. It does seem like a prime example of ‘too good to be true,’ but it is not flawed in its logical construction. There is a difference between a claim that is illogical (e.g., that we have free will but that all of our actions are predetermined) and one that is simply false (e.g., we can ‘earn’ an infinite afterlife of salvation at the mere ‘cost’ of our time here on Earth). There’s a difference between being told something logically fallacious (God is real because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because God says so) and something that is merely untrue (e.g., believing in God will give you some benefit after you die).

If Ron Paul were not so anti-woman’s rights - I could see why you would support him. Then again you probably don’t have a uterus - so you don’t care. Ron is a vehement pro-lifer and would do his best to overturn ROE/WADE. Sorry Ron but this is the 21st century. Please can’t we find someone better than another old white man?

Well said brother.

I was really feeling you until I got to number six. I don’t understand how a supposedly rational person like yourself can support Ron Paul.

Authoritarian or Libertarian? Ron Paul on Church/State Separation …

Do you think a Fertilized Egg is a Person? Ron Paul Does!!!

This post is so awesome!
Except USA should be a part of Canada
or at least give us fucking Alaska!

I don’t see any sense in allowing my morals and values being dictated by something that might be true or might be false
Truth is not in a book and certainly not in belief.
Truth is in perception.
Amen.

Rock on
~Ryan

superb post -funny-witty.
I think you wrote it well also as I could ‘hear your voice’.
Logic Rules.

Excellent article, made me smile - along with totally agreeing with you.

Thanks!

What if God ‘hopped off his throne’ but you ignored it, or just weren’t impressed with what you saw?

Hi,

I tried to subscribe to your feed, but it errored because the link you are sending is coming through as http://http:/www.dailygarlic.com/feed/

Regards

mk

hey. it is tru that its hard 2 belive in something that you cant see. but hey, its wrong for christians trying 2 change people simply they think they are right. let people decide on their own. OH! side note. the new pope was an ex nazi. tru story

Yeah, Hegel. Only a dog doesn’t use logic as well as a human.

Hey David, Great post buddy. Now i’m not saying I believe one way or the other but i know religion is wrong.

Peace buddy

you need Jesus very badly david. go to some God-fearing fellowships and observe first. not to catholic churches, how can a sin be forgiven by two hail mary’s?

as much as logic is an argument to doubt organized religion, it is also it’s biggest flaw. maybe we can get a prize, like eternal happiness in heaven, through using logic. hmmm. take all the twisted, unprovable things a religion uses and work them into your argument for logic. you could begin a new fresh logical organized religion. keep up the good observations. also, try and write this again, with the intent on presenting to a church full of 85 year old women. trying to talk one of them out of heaven is going to be a challenge. but if you get one, you could sway the entire world. everyone listens to grandma. - peace, michael

too many jokes but otherwise decent

David your comments don’t even merit a rebut and I just waisted my time typing this . . . more useless rhetoric . . . you must be democrat in belief

Its nice to read a blog by someone with the same ideas I have about religion. If only the majority of the world could accept logic as a way of life and not just used for problem solving. Well said indeed.

Okay, now that you have the ranting out of the way, what was your point? Use your logic to disprove God. All you did is what a lot of other people do … co-join poorly understood concepts from multiple religious foundations and then ask 7th grade questions of the mish-mash that results.

Sorry; not even close. Absolutely no banana.
“Ever notice how religions promise us stuff that cannot be instantly proven?” er, um, “Ever notice how scientists promise us stuff that cannot be instantly proven?” Global warming is a start. Anti-aging promises. “Make life in a test-tube”. “Run out of oil in 20 years”. Life on (name you planet). “Silicone boobs are safe.” Lipitor is safe. E=MC2 (yep, wrong. Close, but wrong.)

Check the predicted time span for brute-forcing current levels of encryption … they extend beyond the anticipated end of the universe.

Amazin’ how ‘the logical mind’ accepts the miracles and the unfathomables of ‘pure’ science, but rejects the same things in religion.

Your implicit dissing of Wotan, Thor and Loki will not go unnoticed when you stand at the gates of Valhalla!

You had me going right up until the Ron Paul and the pot shit. Typical Internet lists.

i hereby declare david the god of logic and oxymoronic stupidity (because i work for the department of redundancy department), to sit on his throne of crumpled-up twix wrappers and empty pizza boxes, adorned with his crown of sam adams bottlecaps. he shall rule the universe along with the goddess caffieneena and murfy the omnipotent teddy bear.

well done, dude.

Hey, hell is where the interesting people would be (assuming its existence, natch). I mean, if we are wrong, would we want to be stuck with sanctimonious born agains in ´heaven´’anyway?:)

Fine article until you jumped the shark with Ron Paul

kindof misleading title, since half your points are off-topic. but i hear you about Ron Paul. Although i’m Australian, from what I’ve seen, Ron Paul tells it how it is - which is refreshing. Hope he can get up there.

in regards to your points. - i’m not concerned in

1 - according to the bible, the world was much different in the beginning and far better suited to life. according to genesis, the world was initially created with a water/ice canopy and subterranean water reserves (described in genesis). hence people lived longer, bugs animals grew bigger. Also there would have been far more habitable land. and Canada wouldn’t have been cold at all…

in regards to 2 - if God is all powerful then he would be powerful enough to create a universe within which man has free will. 2a if materialism is correct then whatever choices one makes are purely determined by genes and enviroment. if so there is little point in arguing one way or the other, since we are simply dancing to the tune of our dna. In a godless universe, choice is more a problem for the atheist than the theist.

4. no sane person would deny micro evolution. the debate concerns macro evolution. as yet, no process has been observed that can produce life from non-life, or that can add more information to the gene.

5. a. if your follow your progression of more powerful god creations then a some point you must reach a limit of infinite power and intelligence, bingo - there he is. more seriously - the act of creating needs time to create in, so only the first cause which can create time would therefore be more powerful than any later ‘power’ than operates within the time-space area.

8. a question that has been pondered for ages, but the question only makes sense if a God exists. without a God there can be no ‘good’ or ‘bad’ so the question falls apart. Otherwise, the answers involve arguments such as - evil exists, people do have a free will and that God does not punish every deed now because he wants to give everyone as much time and choice to freely accept Him.

9. According to the Bible God offers 2 signs for by which one may believe. first is the created world, the existence of laws, logic etc. second is the life, death and resurrection of Christ, by which many people believe and went to their deaths for refusing to deny. failing that, the bible mentions that even if God was to come down with all his angels that some people would still not believe.

10. i don’t know exactly what other religions offer here and now, but as far I read in the bible that if one applies the things asked of a Christian, that real inner peace and joy are the results. and that also, the bible gives a framework for safely enjoying the pleasures of this world, such as sex, alcohol, etc.

sorry for the long and drawn out post, but i hope some of this was food for thought.

I share exactly your thoughts. I’m an ex Muslim. However though, I just want to point out that this 72 virgins thing is over emphasized by the media. In Islam, a good Muslim is promised heaven mainly, among many other things he’d wish for; women. It was something lightly mentioned and the number is used to equal “many”.

It’s good post, enjoyed reading it.

I’m not saying I agree with you, and half of what you said was really entertaining - however you should check your facts before saying that in Islam you’re promise 72 virgins after you die. It just makes you like an idiot.

Hell has to actually exist first. And I don’t mean in a book of parables and in your head.

But if it does it exist, I believe Hillary will run for president.

hi david,
thanks

Not the greatest arguments ever, but still better than any of the “arguments” theists spout. Can I have a fan too Scott? Maybe one that’s thermal powered, batteries are bad for the environment

great article - thanks for sharing. although in a perfect world, budweiser would not flow from anywhere. submit your own beer snob comment today!

….and you came up with all this by your self, get real david, many before you and many after you will keep dragging these “pop” positions not worth the …… please do some serious research.

Just so you know, Paul is a hardcore bible thumper that does not believe in the separation of church and state. But he has great foreign policy (and thats all). Now watch me burn for saying something anti-paul.

Oh David,
If only more people thought like us, the world would be a better place. Its sad to see that logic and reasoning has gone out the window. But then again, why shouldn’t I believe everything I hear, they wouldnt lie to me right?

this is a good example of why frat boys shouldn’t major in philosophy. Please learn how to formulate an actual argument, then you can go on posting all the websites you want about how god doesn’t exist.

Some great points ..and a few snarks mixed in. But you’ll never convince a religionist because there is a fundamental flaw in human logic that allows these people to start with a conclusion and then work backward, only accepting “evidence” that supports their pre-established belief, while ignoring facts that prove them wrong.

This article was totally devoid of logic and a major waste of time.

Logic can prove that the warm stove exists;

Can’t prove hell exists. In fact, nothing can. (Anyone can write a book that asserts something. Doesn’t make it true, no matter how long ago they wrote it or how many people wrote it with them)

And if there is a god who can create a nearly infinite universe, what the hell does he care if I believe in him? That’s like an overblown scenario of a guy who works in a shoe factory calling the guy who bought the Nike’s he stitched together a few years back, just to see how they’re going. I mean seriously, if there is a God who can create and control an entire universe, wouldn’t his time be better spent in a nearly infinite different ways than seeing what I’ve done wrong recently? I do love #4 about evolution. We have these incredibly complex rules of physics, but god just “willed us into existence,” and we “just are.” Regardless of the complexities of our bodies, environment, and universe. Nope, he just went “Poof!”

Great post! All good points. I used to think that religion was fantasy but harmless. I’ve come to realize in the last few years that it is far from harmless. It is cult-like teachings that are hammered into children from birth. Of course they believe it. It is all they have ever been taught.

But that’s not the problem. The problem is the notion that you must believe in a specific religion or die. That an invisible friend has told you to do something the could not possibly be rationalized in any other way. The promises of rewards if you strap a bomb to your back and kill innocent men, women, and children. How could an unthinkable act like that be rationalized in any other way?

You’re a genius. <3
And someone better bring more fans, cuz I’m gonna be joining him. =3

Lol, preach on my man! Sigh, there are alot of things but you have to accept that Religion is a double edged sword. Sometimes blind hope and faith is good, and other times it creates wars (Crusades anyone?)

While many of the views here are represented less tactfully than most arguments are, there are valid points here. I’m not an atheist or agnostic, but these are valid questions that the church does not have valid answers for. Vulgar, yes, but it’s still good writing in my opinion.

I dont see how any of these points even come close to showing a sign that creation is false. There is no proof that evolution is true, there are no fossils that have been found of a creature in the middle of a mutation from millions of years ago, if there were so many mutations going on, wouldnt there atleast be a few? Many world renown scholars and scientist that have no “religion” have said time and time again that there must be a creater for life like there is here on earth to be possible. 3 of your points (ron paul, clinton, and pot/acohol) have nothing to do with proving logic over religion. All that shows is that you better believe in religion because americans have no logic, therefore thats proving religion over logic! I think before trying to disprove someone else you should see how well your ideas will stand up. As of what i have read you dont really have any points at all.

well said!

There are some very valid reasons to believe in God, as outlined by Jesus. http://www.openjesus.org/2007/10-reasons-to-believe-in-god/

Bet you feel smart now, heathen!

bipolar2: God is the #1 cause for leading dogs away from warm stoves.. wait a min.. according to the bible animals don’t have souls must be jesus then LOL

Very well said. Brilliant. Will you have my baby? o.O

“Alcohol, the leading cause of drunk driving, and as such the leading cause of alcohol-related deaths…”

Is there any other cause of drunk driving or alcohol-related death BESIDES alcohol?

Just checking.

funny post, and I agree on points 3, 6, and 7, but I have to say as a Christian, it stings. I’m sure it’s just as bad though when some evangelical tells you you’re going to hell for not believing. Unfortunately for sane/logical/intelligent Christians, the majority of professing believers are quick to open their mouths out of ignorance and make us ALL look like idiots.

I’m not trying to argue with you, I’d rather just live my life, but I want to make one comment:

Just because the “Republican” stance on the war is occupation & aggression in the Middle East, it doesn’t mean that it is actually a “Republican” policy… Right?

Christians are misrepresenting Christ’s message, and (deservedly)getting slammed on their faces for it…

Ron Paul 2008! -seriously, don’t blame me when Hill-Dog bankrupts this country with her socialist health care system.

I’ve never seen someone troll so hard on information they obviously know nothing about.

Good show, mate. Good show.

have my babies…

joke..

But your site was thoroughly entertaining. However, I think it might have been taken my the christian folk as a little more respectable without the jokes.

I think it’s hilarious– guess it just depends on the audience you were looking for.

David, you are a turd.

LOL I knew that was gonna come ^^^^

Your article was just another convincing argument for me that religion and GOD is simply the result of imagination, fraud, and fear.

i’m behind you 100% and appreciate the pithy tone you use to lay it out there, but i think you’ve made a small mistake… truthfully, if this world were perfect, the u.s would just be another province…

You’re an idiot.

You’re still an idiot.

The author should read up on religions like christianity and find out more cause his info isn’t strait.

Unfortunately Ron Paul doesn’t believe in evolution (ref:digg)

The last pic of death was very done. And some of the other ones were nice as well. Could you put up some sources for these pictures. I know if I had been the one to draw/photoshop some of those, I’d like some credit.

If it was you though, great job with the last death motif. Love it.

Scott, you may see him there. Statistically speaking, *if* a god does exist it is highly likely you are worshipping the wrong one.

No need to be snarky.

Cheers!

your “logic” has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

ooo.. can I have one too!?!

“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike!”

Great post!

Hello

Guys, its ppl like you that give Religion a bad image, we do not force Religion on someone, because you can’t, and if you could, we would not have free will, you guys are closed minded. even thou im a Christian, i keep an open mind, (not that you guys have to,) just don’t go bashing a person because they do not believe in Religion, if you do, your not acting like the bible says, or what ever your Religion is.

Ryan M

Where do you live that you can’t pre-order girlscout cookies?

Religion easily has the best bullshit story of all time. Think about it. Religion has convinced people that there’s an invisible man…living in the sky. Who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a list of ten specific things he doesn’t want you to do. And if you do any of these things, he will send you to a special place, of burning and fire and smoke and torture and anguish for you to live forever, and suffer, and burn, and scream, until the end of time. But he loves you. He loves you. He loves you and he needs money.
-George Carlin-

Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
-Friedrich Nietzsche-

If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
-Albert Einstein-

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
-Gandhi-

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
-Benjamin Franklin-

Black holes would seem to suggest that God not only plays dice, but also sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
-Stephen Hawking-

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
- Epicurus -

There’s a phrase we live by in America: “In God We Trust”. It’s right there where Jesus would want it: on our money.

Now you should pay facebook to put YOUR article onto it.

GOod post.

Big kudos for touching on the idea of choice being canceled out by the existence of a God, and his “will” for us to make certain choices, else we be punished like schoolchildren with fire and brimstone. If you believe in heaven, you are not making ‘good’ choices because you’re ‘good’… or at least you can’t say that, because you do, in fact, have a carrot dangling in front of you on a stick. Be an upstanding person because that’s what it means to be human, not because of some reward or afterlife.

Do you believe you can offer a kid an eternity of cookies for saying he loves you, and think he means he loves you, 100%? Then why would God believe he can do that, and think you are not influenced by the cookie? Why would you offer a kid an eternity of cookies in the first place? In fact, it should make people angry that God thinks we need some idea of a heaven in our head, so that we will be good? We should be able to be “good” and “just” without the magical rewards.

Keep following the carrot, Scott.

OK that was just stupid. In fact so stupid I’m not going to say anything in rebuttal.

Dude, your an idiot, plain and simple, there is a god.

Your opinion is retarded. Go to hell.

I think you’re the naive one here, David.

2] The free will debate is about as circular as the chicken and egg debate. Everyone has free will, even if God knows whats going to happen. You can try and juke him, but it really doesn’t matter- choose what you want.

3] Free Will- God’s benevolence is not in his creation of a perfect world of only good, but rather in granting the universe free will.

4] The Catholic church [not mine!] has a neutral [rather vague] stance on evolution, stating that it and science are not in conflict and that God’s hand is evident in the creation of the universe.

5] Okay- what sparked the Big Bang? There’s yet to be an explanation for it, unless you adopt the big bounce theory of the universe or a steady-state theory, both of which have been scientifically disproved.

6] I guess half of your article is a thoughtless rant and the other is intended to be funny. As peace oriented as Ron Paul is, he’s got some ridiculous ideas, such as getting rid of public schools and going back to the gold standard. Both of which are poor ideas, unless we live in a Utopian society [laughs].

7] Free-will and business.

8] Free-will

9] I think if we had a tangible God, everyone would believe in him. Here’s two things that I believe that kind of contradict one another- God has to be believed in strictly by faith. The beautifully explainable universe we live in is evidence of a God.

Conc] Good.

All things aside, don’t take me for a Christian. That being said, I think you need to reconsider what a God is [to you] and why there could be one. Please do not consult Webster for your definition.

Alot of what you said is logical, except your point on free will. The thing about being given free will is that it is YOUR freedom to choose. Just because the outcome is inevitable doesn’t mean it’s because your choice was influenced by anything. Belief comes from the self, to look anywhere else is to be driven to fear and confusion (such as catholics hammering in fear under the guise of divine dictum…God knows I slept with my neighbours wife, so God will send me to hell). Theological ambiguity drives my hand, but I have to say that the ocean of dogma and fantasy that surrounds the worthwhile bits of so many religions is taken too far 99% of the time; the bible is wrought with morals and things to live by, but still people are looking for a leper curing Water-to-Wine vending machine -_-. Salaam and what not

Hey, scott, can I get one of those too? Because according to the universal religion known as Christianity, even if I, a Hindu (I’m atheist, but was born into Hinduism. So, for the sake of my argument, please pretend that I never began thinking for myself.), believe in one true God, and my beliefs are strikingly similar to your Christianity, I will still burn in your hell. No matter how good of a person I am, no matter how little I sin, no matter how many good deeds I do, if I do not specifically believe in your God, will I be tortured for all of eternity? Please just sit back and think about that. Your faith says that I will be. Isn’t that great. Just look at your own life. How many people close to you aren’t Christians, but are better than many Christians that you know. If I were to ask you where those Christians will go after death, you’ll tell me that only God knows. However, you do know that your great friend who isn’t Christian will burn in hell for all eternity. Nice. I may not follow or even like Hinduism, but at the very least, if I were Hindu, I would have the peace of mind to know that all of my white friends won’t suffer unspeakable torments just because their god had a different name than mine.

P.S. Can you make my fan one of those new nifty hand crank ones? Much appreciated.

Great article! Ahh the beauty of blind faith…AKA being brainwashed from childhood. Can’t beat it! Personally i believe in Ron Paul as my savior!

# Comment by scott — January 21, 2008 @ 12:58 pm

Well said, David. I will send you one of those little battery-powered handheld fans so your stay in hell will be more pleasant.
[/quote]

Well, Scott, I see you’re a common cowardly asshole Christian. Take your superstition, fold it until its all corners and shove it up your arse while rotating at a high rate of speed.

Damn! Mental toddlers. The same responses young children have concerning ‘Santa Claus.’ “If you’re not good you’ll get a chunk of coal in your stocking.”

Myriad lame ass superstitions have the same Eternal Dire Consequences[tm] your full of stolen stories bronze age horse apples does. I don’t see you being concerned about all the other ‘loving’ and empty threats, and you expect others to do other than laugh at yours?

Free clue: There is no ‘God.’ No ‘Heaven.’ No ‘Hell.’ No ‘Eternal Life.’ Grow the fuck up. Oh, if you’re going to whine about ‘language’ 1 thess 5:18 for you, fuckwit.

Way to go, we need more people who actually THINK about things once in awhile. The religious right have had their day it is time for them to leave the rest of us alone.

Great post.

It’s ironic that after going off on ID for two numbers on your list you follow with a canidate for president who doesn’t believe in evolution….

Hey Scott,

Don’t forget yours; you’ll be sitting right next to him

I wonder how does it feel to go through life with the mental capacity of a three year old…

Any words Scott?

I know, I know, don’t feed the trolls. But I just wanted to say that to all the people that go around judging other people like they are.. *gasp* GOD!

you are my hero sir, with the exception of wanting Canada amalgamated into the States… that makes you a low down dirty traitor.

Top One Reason I Don’t Have to Prove You’re An Idiot:

It is obscenely apparent in your writing.

People like you make Atheists look as stupid as those people who see the virgin Mary in their french toast.

OK, I have number 11.

1. To want something is to lack it or else you wouldn’t want it (because you would have it).

2. To be perfect is to be complete and not lacking, therefor wanting anything.

3. God is perfect.

THEREFOR, God doesn’t want anything from us.

@5
Scientists universally accept that the universe is not infinite.
So how did it come to existence?
If you say God can not be real because he had to come to being or be created.
Then the universe had to just come to being or be created. But if the universe is everything, ever. Then how could it come to existence because it is existence.
So you must accept that something existed infinitely.
And of course scientists say that the universe didn’t infinitely.
So what did?

@9
Have you seen evolution occur?
If its real why can’t you just show it to me tomorrow at 10:30.
Evolution is as blind faith as any religion and more than some.

@2
I’ll admit i am confused on this issue.
The only way I’ve heard it put that makes sense is, God basically has a map of what would happen for every single choice we make. And its up to us to choose a path. Not sure if thats right but thats what I’ve been told. I’ll start researching it.

@8 and 7
This doesn’t disprove God.
It says if there is a god, he gives us freewill.
If there isn’t, life just sucks.

@4
I believe micro evolution exists.
By logic though macro just makes no sense.
Lack of fossil evidence is one thing.
Irreducibly complex organs are another.

@3 and 6
Like the political jokes.

@1
I think by perfect, people mean scientifically perfect.
Like the location of the earth to allow all different forms of life.

@scott
You have no right to tell him he’s going to hell.
Since I’m guessing your a believer, you need to know you don’t have the right to judge non-believers. You can only hold believers accountable.

Reply if you want to discuss anything further.

hey if this has to go through some moderation or something delete this one but my last comment didn’t show up so im just checking if it was the length of it.

Interesting… Number 6 and your conclusion don’t seem to jive. I however do agree with your assertion that logic rules over blind faith.

Regards,

Cecil

How depressing. There is no God, no one really cares. To think, soon any and every person no matter how important will be virtually forgotten. Nothing I do matters. The only people anyone remembers are scam artists like Jesus and his band of scam artist followers who forged a history of false miracles and false hope. Nothing is really right or wrong. I shouldn’t even feel outraged about murderers. They aren’t really doing anything wrong because nothing really matters and only as a society have we put laws into effect and tried to brainwash people into thinking it’s wrong. Nothing actually is wrong or right, but you have to fool people into thinking you follow their beliefs to get what you want and society’s cooperation. After all, who are we to judge?
Morals are probably just for survival and those who thought murder was wrong survived because they didn’t kill each other off.

THAT WAS AAAAAWWWWEEESSSOOOMMMMEEEEE!!!
YOU SAID EVERY THOUGHT I’VE EVER HAD.
MINE ARE JUST A LITTLE MORE ATHIEST.
BUT, EVERYONE IS “unique”
Thank you.
You have made my week.

ron paul believes in god… that our rights don’t come from government, they come from god.

one reason i don’t like dr. paul… that is, unless when he says “god” he means himself.

Direct Quote: “Like the Founding Fathers, the core of my political philosophy is grounded in the knowledge that rights come from the Creator, not the government. Since rights do not come from the gov’t, the gov’t cannot violate those rights. Religion has a very important role to play in a limited gov’t philosophy.”
Source: http://www.facebook.com/politics/debate.php?id=6713613991

Logic and reason are at the heart of why I am a Christian. Read this books for an introduction and some decent refutations to most of your arguments and then get back to me (or just get back to me):

The Case for Christ
The Case for Faith
The Case for a Creator
I Don’t Have Enough Faith to be an Atheist

I do not wish the destruction of your house on you and I am not the kind of person who likes to be spoon fed anything. I think that questioning everything is good and I am happy to see you doing it. Just know that what you see on TV or what you see practiced by what seems to be the majority of political leaders is not a good representation of Christianity as a whole, especially when you are most looking for reason and logic.

The people that sadden me off the most are the ones who claim to be follows of Jesus yet do not take the concepts of loving others seriously. When Christ said love your enemies I don’t think he meant to lock them up in a detainment camp, torture them, and deny them habeas corpus.

God isn’t just a religious being. People have many different interpretations of God. Like mine, for example. The universe and God are the same. One will never exist without the other and neither created the other. They are but the same.

Immature post with poor research… Arguments 1 and 7 are the same along with points 6 and 4. Obviously written by an unintelligent person for an unintelligent audience…

Love it!!! I put this as post of the year!!!

you’re goddamn right pluto still counts

lol logic vs. religion? You’re just comparing your logic with the logic the church (or at least your perception of their logic). Apart from anything else bad things happening (including bad presidents) isn’t exactly a new argument against religion and there are plenty of explanations for it, read some basic theology like CS lewis.

All good points, with plenty of funnies thrown in to keep it interesting!

Of course, there are still many twists left in your, and humanity’s, journey to understanding. Many twists.

That’s just brilliant. Very accurate.

You make a lot of good points, but don’t be under the illusion that you are the first to think of these ideas, some of them, ie bad things happening to good people, are found even in the Bible (the Book of Job). Much of this list I’ve seen even in modern theologians. I think it’s a mistake (though an easy one to make) to equate religion with fundamentalism. Though it sounds like a self-help book, you might want to consider reading the courage to be by Paul Tillich. Or this book http://religion-online.org/showbook.asp?title=376

Interesting, but aren’t you being a little hypocritical?

Also, as a christian who believes in evolution, the legalization of marijuana, and an avid Ron Paul supporter, I find your article a little mis-representative of christians. (not to mention that religion doesn’t always mean God. Perhaps your article should be entitled Logic Over God?)

Also, in point 5 - you contradict yourself. You say that God can’t just magically appeared or always existed, yet that seems more likely than some molecules just randomly appearing and then (just as randomly) exploding.

Some good points very funny

Lol i was confronted by two men in the park this afternoon who told me to find jesus and quoted scripture for 30 min. I only listened to them cause they were black and it was MLK day. Well that and they were really nice. But next time I may have to quote some scripture of my own … aka this page lol. Good work. =D

Are you serious… this is the “logical” list you came up with? I was at least hoping that logic may be presented at some point… Some earth-shattering refutation of C.S. Lewis’s “Mere Christianity”. But instead, I find a almost-pithy bigoted rag… hmmm… While I appreciate the attempt at humor w/ Clinton and Dr. Ron Paul… the rest of it rather falls flat. In between the humor, I can’t say that at any point you’ve accurately represented what non-fundamentalist (more mainstream) people of the Christian faith (or any other faith) actually believe.
I’d love to hear what you have to say if you’re brave enough to check your humor at the door and actually do some research and not just throw together a bunch of rag-tag religion-bashing nonsense you probably picked up from your other high friends…
Keep me posted!

What an awesome post, I dont believe in religions , but i only believe in humanity. The religions are the main cause of havoc in this world. Only if they knew how to see other human beings with humanity, we would not have been facing this chaos . Cheers mate

Epic

nice…maybe you shouldd consider reading the satanic bible cause that book basically rapes all religions with cold hard logic.

queue the applause. Take that religion.

read c s lewis’ mere christianity and tell me he does not riddle your beliefs with holes. He too was once an avid atheist, until his eyes were opened with logic.

haha. Well said.

I wish I had some thin mints right now.

LMAO here, this is great, Ron Paul for Pres!

nice, man.

Haha, awesome man, I’m a..”Christian?” myself, and a few of the things you said there clicked with me. Like the Evolution argument, it just makes sense, why wouldn’t it be true, its easier this way anyways. Besides proof lays everywhere. The blind faith one was good, I’m still gonna stick to thinking that there COULD possibly be a heaven, cuz why not =). Blind religion followers are so foolish.

Anyway, you do gotsta wonder how “he always was” :/ NO MAKE SENSE whatevs, nice article! I enjoyed it

OH MAN RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL RON PAUL

kill yourself

For someone that is supposed to know logic, he makes a lot of mistakes. I will outline them point by point in true nerd fashion (for the record I am not even religious).

1. “Earth is the perfect environment, it had to have been made for us”
This is actually a plausible argument, but an equally plausible argument is that we were made for the earth (through millions of generations of breeding). The fact that other planets could possibly support life in no way supports his argument, and that is what we call a red herring.

2. Free Will - Contradicting a Contradiction
Not all religions believe in free will, and it certainly isn’t a prerequisite for being religious.

3. Hillary Clinton is leading the polls
I realize this is humor so I won’t bother with it

4. Evolution
Again, not all religions exclude evolution as a possibility, and evolution certainly doesn’t exclude God as a possibility.

5. Intelligent Designs lack of a designer
Great circular reasoning there. Intelligent design is wrong because there is no god. There is no god because intelligent design is wrong.

6. Ron Paul is behind in the polls
Again, a unfortunate attempt at mixing humor with politics with religion bashing.

7. Pot is illegal but Alcohol is A-Okay
Again. Well I guess filling up a top 10 list is harder then it looks on certain subjects.

8. Bad things happen to good people, great things happen to bad people
Statistically, whether you are “good” or “bad” doesn’t make certain things more or less likely to happen to you, and I know of few religions that claim it does. In fact, many saints and prophets are associated with hardship, not a easy, happy-go-lucky life. The idea of karma is hardly universal among religions.

9. Blind Faith
Most people who believe in God actually don’t do it on a whim, but have personal experiences that suggest to them that God truly does exist. Most of them realize that this evidence would not necessarily be called scientifically valid, and trying to make it so would ruin the point. If you think that solid proof of God’s existence is needed to commit to a faith then you are totally missing the point. More often, adhering to a faith has very real benefits, not in the realm of the supernatural, but in the social opportunities that being a part of a social group provides. In fact, the usefulness of religion-like behavior (ie, social groups and religious rituals as a mechanism to show devotion to the group) can be observed in other species besides humans, and because it in many cases enhances survival (look up religion and life expectancy) the benefits can be plain even without the existence and supernatural help from a sky-daddy.

10. The proof is in dying
I agree that there is a lot of nonsense in religions in this area and it would be nice if they acknowledged that some of their motives behind over-selling the afterlife are not necessarily inspired by God but by a natural fear of the unknown. Still, I would like to point out that much of the focus of religion has to do with what you do while you are still alive. Also, there are “logical” ways to think and there are “helpful” ways to think. The belief that death is just a transition to something else could help people fear it less and therefor make the time on this earth more pleasant for some. It doesn’t take a genius that a buddhist’s or a muslim’s deathbed (70 virgins yay) is probably a happier place to be than an atheist’s deathbed. It doesn’t make it any more right, but it does make it more helpful.

So why would I bother to defend religion when I am not even religious? Because I see value in it. It can be a valuable piece of your cultural heritage, a way to connect to generations of past, an opportunity to appreciate other points of view if done with an open mind, something that brings people closer together, and all this doesn’t imply that you have to make yourself stupid. Just look for the value in something, and stop worrying about whether something unprovable is right or wrong. Of course, history has shown that religion is not always helpful in the ways I just described, but my point is that it CAN be.

I would rather spend some time in hell with logical people like you than with the brainwashed lot.

A Hell threat on the 2nd post? Wow, what a convincing argument Scott makes. I do, though, think you should accept the mini-fan.

Great rant. I guess if there is a god than I will see you in hell. Do you think they’ll see AC units down there?

dugg for truth and humor

Give a starving man a fish and he will survive for a day.
Teach him to fish himself and he’ll never go hungry.
Give a man faith and he will die praying for fish.

Also on the creationism front evolution has animals evolving to meet the requirements of their environment maybe if these evolutions are the responsibility of an all powerful creator the faithful ones should be looking for the external signal (Heavenly Bluetooth) that initiates these changes (genetic firmware updates) as a form of proof. Apologies i’ve just had a beer and on thinking this through presumably the “creator” could have designed in the adaptive element to genetics.

P.S. one of the nice things about these comment boxes is you can just offload your afternoon brainfarts directly onto the interweb.

Thanks

Steve the Infidel

Thats weird looks like the creator filtered my original comment

I know god is real, he speaks to me.

http://GodTellsMeThings.com

I know god is real, he speaks to me.

ahhh i love it, at work i sit next to someone who fully believes in ID, i find i have urges to eat my own brain, personally i stopped believeing in imaginery friends when i stopped being a child

Funny read David. Unfortunately it wasn’t very enlightening. I agree on the pot issue but thats it. Think about just a couple quick things for me. So its a coincidence that earth is exactly the right distance to harbor life. With the theories of evolution why wouldn’t organisms be able to evolve and adapt to the environments of other planets in our solar system. Also if there is a God and the universe is as big as it is. Why wouldn’t God create life on other planets? Lastly if God showed everybody that he existed faith would not be required. And everybody would believe and then we couldn’t have these great debates. Ok so you don’t believe in intelligent design, then how was the matter created that started the big bang theory? That had to come from some where? Extremists give Christians a bad name and reputation. If you read the Bible it doesn’t tell you to live a cult life. All it teaches is how to be a good person and live a good life in society. Really what is so bad about that? Unfortunately the man made rules are what screws everything up. Sorry to rant… But we do have free will and just because God knows what we are going to do doesn’t mean he controls what we do. How do animals really have the ability to alter their DNA? That seems harder to believe to me then a God. Thanks for the read. Keep blazin!!!

Everything you said was pretty spot on- except for the Ron Paul bit. I think it’s great that he believes in the constitution, but I think he is a White Supremest. and possibly a Neo-Nazi.

“Well said, David. I will send you one of those little battery-powered handheld fans so your stay in hell will be more pleasant.”

Oh man. Thank you. I kinda had a rough day but your hilarious comment has made me feel that much better. Kudos, you crazy person, you.

Very well worded.

Commenting on 72-virgin incentive - I would like to know what incentives they promise to women who accept that particular ‘religion’?

Well said. Though point 5 has always provided hours of mental amusement for me. Whenever I’m bored at work with nothing better to do I consider the paradox of intelligent design versus the paradox of scientific explanations for the universe. It’s the chicken or the egg problem, except that instead of being satisfied with the answer of some not entirely chicken-like animal laying an egg that happened to be slightly closer to a chicken, we’ve got to look even further. Where’d that not quite chicken come from? If we are to believe the big bang theory, then why was there a bang? And what exactly was it that was banging? And where did THAT come from? Is it truly possible that the universe in some shape or form has ALWAYS existed? Always is a really long fucking time.

Scott, your a dumbass

Period.

Well stated David!

scott. shut up. and you are going to say someone is going to hell but seems to your a christian. isnt that suppose to be up to your god? only god can judge? im pretty sure it says something like that in that old fairy tale book.

Great post. Really enjoyed reading a thinking person’s replies to religious hogwash.

If your going to use logical reasoning as the main premise of your argument at least try and make a logically formed argument. All your points (minus the failed attempts at political humor) are valid if backed properly, but yours are filled with multiple fallacies. Such as the “Intelligent Designs lack of a designer” point, your premise (b) takes a dogmatic stance on the disbelief of a creator, which in “logic” is just as bad as taking a dogmatic stance in believing the unknown. Shit, even Richard Dawkins calls himself a 95% atheist. Dont get me wrong I am an atheist true and true, but if your gonna argue, argue right or your not going to change anyones outlook on the subject. As for the rest of your points your using inductive knowledge not deductive, treat it as such.

And if your going to try and be funny well…go hit up funny or die.

Well said and great use of graphic language IMHO!

But logic will inevitably keep said dog near said stove.

David, thank you for the dose of “free will”. Oh & I’ll try not to drive the steaks in too hard ;-). Well, kudos for intertwining your points with current events and a touch of humor. I, myself am a “baby” Christian, almost 8-years now. I found your writings pretty much no different then many others I’ve come across over the years (I came across yours from my daily digg -ing). Christianity & faith, yes, rely heavily in believing in what’s to come in our “life after death”, & getting the answers to many of the questions you brought up (i.e. understanding God). What challenge would “faith” be if instead of believing in the holy sacrifice of Jesus, let’s just ringing up the big man himself to schedule coffee this week?

Would I like to live in a world without crime & suffering (among other things) right now, yes! Do I like that I have to wait until I die to do so, no, but I don’t make the rules though. So I have to try & be a little nice to people, not cheat on my wife, run around killing people, etc. Bummer, I’m sure the world dosen’t have enough of that, right? Many other members at the church I attend (lancasterbaptist.org), go a little further & even move to other countries & endure much more then a slammed door in thier face on a Saturday morning.

So David, take your free will & do or don’t believe in God or His son, Jesus. At least your willing to accept the consequences if your wrong…

AreJay

Well as a Christian Ron Paul supporter lets take your arguments one at a time, and I will be nice since we are at least on the same political team.

1. Earth as a perfect home for us. While some Christians may hold this view I would argue that this is hardly a tenant of the faith, nor is it something that is taught in Scripture. In fact the Christian faith teaches quite clearly that the Earth is fallen, and it is a hostile environment. The wild parts of it require our efforts to tame, and those creatures who live in the wild contend daily for their very lives, as would we if we had not the capacity to transform things to our will. Hence in this world there is scarcity as any good economist (Mises) can tell you. The point that many different life forms live in different environments is well taken, however we also know that there are limits. A good scientist must confess that any thought as to the abundance of life outside of earth is merely speculation at this point in time, for after all there is no empirical evidence that any extra-terrestrial life exists. You may claim, if you like that the evidence will come in time, but I would then say to you that you are exercising faith yourself albeit of a different kind.

2. Free Will - This is merely a logical error on your part, and also a misunderstanding of the complexities of Christian theology. First as to the logical error. Foreknowledge does not constitute forced action or even ability and/or willingness to influence actions to achieve or avoid the foreknown results. It is simple really, because someone knows something will in fact happen in advance, for good or ill, does in no way imply that they can or are willing to do anything to prevent or help along said events. In God’s case of course we merely speak of his willingness to intervene at any given time. Christians do believe that God will intervene at some point, but not at all points in time. Also this logical error creeps up primarily because most people think of God as a future knower, but this is not the proper idea. God is an All Knower, meaning he knows our future actions as well as all possible events and actions that will never take place, and all the infinite combinations thereof. Wrap your head around that one. BTW, libertarians who love freedom, should not be criticizing this theology as it had much to do with the rise of liberty out of the Christian medieval world and into the Enlightenment period.

3. Hillary leading. Yes, well there is evil in the world right. I guess this is a current events spin on the “there is evil in the world so therefore God cant be real” argument ? Well I never understood how Atheist get so confused by this when Christians have a perfectly good explanation that is quite logically consistent. Its basically this, God didn’t screw it up, We did. As self aware creatures able to reason and dominate we have done so, but we have done so in a fallen condition and everything we put our hands to is tainted by us. So why is Hillary likely to be the next President ? Cause we (most of us) are probably gonna vote for her. Don’t blame God for our mistakes.

4. Evolution. The idea that the church is monolithic on this question is just a plain simplification of where Christians are at on this issue. We are not all New Earth, Genesis in one week, Creationists, in fact they are a minority among us. There are a range of views on Evolution among Christians, what we don’t accept is the philosophical assertions that are made such as Scientism, and Naturalism. Neither of which are science themselves but are philosophies about science.

5. Ron Paul. This seems a repeat of your argument in 3 but in reverse. So take what I said in my response to 3 and reverse it.

6. Pot illegal, Alchies ok. I for one am a Christian who believes that those pious brothers and sisters in Christ who believe prohibition is a good thing are simply dead wrong. I am in good company with Ron Paul on this. I have never touched the dam stuff and never will, however as we know from experience in this country with alcohol prohibition, all prohibitions of the use of substances of drink and such cause far worse effects than the drugs themselves. Many prohibitionists back in the 30s had to admit this mistake after a long campaign. Also, it is my sincere opinion that my fellow Christians who are prohibitionists take that view as the result of a misunderstanding of the scripture. The Bible makes distinction between sin and crime. Drug abuse may be a sin, but it cannot be a crime. Crimes are sins that harm others in specific way defined in the Bible. Adultery would be as far as I could Biblically go in claiming a sin to also be a crime, drug use or alcohol use and abuse are clearly beyond this definition as I understand the Bible.

8. Good for Bad people. There is so much to say here that I will try to keep each point short. First this is simply another variation on the “there is evil” argument, so refer to my previous refutation I won’t waste space by repeating it here. Second however is the point that this argument only takes in account what is seen, and not what is not seen. That point has implications for this life of course, but ultimately Christians believe that no one gets away with anything. If you don’t like evil men getting good things in life while good people get the shaft then you should love Jesus’ parable about the rich man and the beggar. I won’t spoil it for you, go look it up, the end is sweet. The point is, Christians believe that in the end perfect justice will be done. Personally I find that a frightening idea, since I myself am guilty of some things that while not the worst things that I could have done, are certainly not proud moments. Think on it.

9. Blind Faith. The fact of the matter is that I don’t know a single Christian who would claim that they simply have blind faith. In fact the whole discipline within Christianity know as Apologetics is one that offers reasons for faith. What we can’t offer is mathematical proofs level of reason, but what Christians can say with confidence is that any reasonable person can believe and have good reasons to the go that extra step of faith to reach belief. I have studied my own faith well enough to know my reasons for believing, and while they are too many to go into all of them here, I would simply say that they exist and Christians are not reduced to blind faith in order to believe.

10. Is Heaven too good to be true. I have heard this argument before, and I will not address the Islamic version of Heaven as it sounds more like a nightmare to me, I have one wife now and this is plenty thank you. However the Christian answer to this argument that we really don’t deserve an eternity in paradise with God to live forever simply because we believe in a religion is to simply concede the point. As I will do right now, your absolutely right, adherence to a religious dogma or idea will in no way merit you diddly squat. Nada, Zippo. Nor will anything else for that matter. Recycling wont do it, Voting for Ron Paul wont get you in, sorry. This is why Christians since Paul and Peter have had one message, and one message alone. GRACE !!! It is by God’s grace alone that we have hope for something not only better but made perfect. Hence, Christianity suffers not from the logical fallacy you refer to, in fact Christianity recognized the very problem you are referring to and say the God has provided a solution. Grace is that solution, check into it, it is good news, and it is not a logical fallacy.

Conclusion. As to the live and let live idea, you should know that Christians agree with this idea. However many people don’t understand that when a Christian approaches you in an attempt to convert you, that they are practicing their faith. Christians are commanded by Christ to go and do this, and to tell them not to do this is like telling them to not practice their own faith. Just remember this and we can all get along just fine, Christians are also never supposed to force anyone into conversion, and for most of Christian history we have not. We spread the Gospel by influence, not coercion, a very libertarian idea. Christians have the right to speak to you about their faith, and you have the right to say ” No thank you”. I think that is something that we can all live with, don’t you agree?

Good stuff. I look forward to more from this site. I wish there were more thinking like this…

wow, when i first started writing my response there were like 3 feedback now there are almost 300 lol

Hey I enjoyed your write up a lot because I found your style of writing very interesting. Me, I’m not very ‘hip’, so you may find my vocabulary/comments a bit drab. However I am posting some in case anyone is interested in some honest discussion on God.

Your Number 5: Logic dictates that if we have a creator, then our creator must have a creator also.

My explanation:
The law of gravity dictates that I can not jump 10 feet high on earth,
but I can do that on the moon. Also, remember anomalous expansion of
water, defying the law applying on other liquids when temperatures
cool? The point is that the laws and reasons in physics, biology and
logic etc that we have understood and discovered apply in a limited
context. Science acknowledges this. The creation-must-have-creator logic does not apply on the creator because He (if He really is the All Powerful, Magnificent Creator of everrrrrything) is beyond the context in which our understanding operates. I gave one example of gravity, but there can be numerous others to show this. More discussion possible.

Your Number 9: Why does God not ’show’ himself?

My explanation:
Knowing that the police and jails etc exist, do some people not still steal, rape etc? Does showing everyone a police station solve crime? Thus this is not the best way for God to (A) guide us to Himself, and (B) especially when this life is a test. People who question Him now, would find the next level excuse if He did show Himself.

This demand is not a stupid one though; I would never believe something without proof. But the demand has to be sincere. Without seeing the train, I know it exists because I see the track. I would hate to be illogical or unscientific. I believe there are enough signs, the biggest being the Qur’an (which you say promises 72 virgins in heaven, but it really doesn’t ), that show God, without showing Him. More discussion possible.

Lastly, assume that bacteria in a culture dish in a lab could think
like humans. Can they ’see’ the scientist? No. But can they not see his ’signs’? Does he stop existing because the bacteria can’t see him?

Here’s one more - Imagine a robbery in your house. You didn’t see anyone take the things. But you know a robber exists, because you’ve seen his signs. Why a different policy for God?

Your Number 10: How can <100 years of good deeds get you infinite life in heaven. The pay back ratio is too high.

My explanation:
This point is a little silly frankly I will still share my thoughts. Imagine an immigrant selling pop corn in the streets. His profit margin is hardly 50 odd cents per bag. But then imagine Bill Gates selling software. His profit margin is a billion plus per release! The pop corn seller would never even BELIEVE that much profit was possible

Catch my drift? Mr. Miser tips $10, I tip $100, an oil rich Arab sheikh may tip $10,000 to waiters for the same service.

If there is a ‘God’ rewarding us in the afterlife, His ‘profit margin’
to us must be beyond human ability; otherwise He is NOT God.

Tail piece: I’m no authority on any religion. Just read your article, liked it and thought I’d share my comments. I’m a little old for flame fights; this is just in case some one is interested in hearing the comments from the ‘other’ side Cheers mate!

well spoken because i like philosophy and the way people view things.

i guess we must all learn the golden rule eh? never discuss politics and religion at a dinner, party, forum? blog? etc…

btw, u all have valid points. we all deserve our own beliefs don’t we?

i dont understand what alcohol x pot has to do with religion x logic

Go Ron Paul! And legalize weed too!

Unfortunately, you won’t really find out how God feels about your intentions in this piece until you’re dead.

Skimming over these comments on my way to the bottom of the page, I could not help but notice some rather long and frankly absolutely futile comments by those that took your post a little more seriously than they should have. I quite enjoyed your list and thought your reasons were totally logical, I mean, Hilary’s a bitch